WoD Information page

[Kikopuz]

Hydrogen sent me a textdocument containing the merits and flaws of certain clans, so I'm placing them in the Clans and Disciplines page. Then we came up with the idea to change the Clans and Disciplines page to a WoD page. We could add all kinds of information regarding the WoD.
Who is with us?
lol ill try using a poll..

[Hydrogen]

i am

[Doe]

I vote yes as it seems alot of people know next to nothing about the WoD lore.

i must admit regarding Mage and some aspects of Werewolf, im totally clueless. However most of this info is available over on the WoDwiki pages if you can find them.

[Kikopuz]

Aye you're correct. Would be great to have our own digital library though..

[Trogers2]

Actually doe is correct, people would just go on the wiki. However if things are set out as they are on the site it may be a easier way to get information quickly.

[Doe]

Im with him!

[Kikopuz]

ISADOR, share your thoughts with us...
it's about (alot of) your pages anyway

[Gast]

just to note it is illegal to post too much pnp information on a website, you might want to reconsider this especially since the KK is one of the only and most known VTMR RP Groups, (being advertised by PlanetVampire) who like me, are part of the WhiteWolf - Dark Pack

[Kikopuz]

Hmm good point...
*thinks about it*

[Gast]

14. What are the limitations on how much art or text I can use?

You cannot use more than 1500 words. You can use no more than 3 art pieces taken from any single book. You may not quote more than 10,000 words from any White Wolf Product. You cannot have character generation rules listed on your site or complete power listings (even if they are your own modifications). You can, however, list any changes to the rules.

*cough* isador *cough*
from WhiteWolf's Fansite FAQ

[Trogers2]

just to note it is illegal to post too much pnp information on a website, you might want to reconsider this especially since the KK is one of the only and most known VTMR RP Groups, (being advertised by PlanetVampire) who like me, are part of the WhiteWolf - Dark Pack

Actually it is perfectly fine to post WOD info on the site. By buying the corebook you are allowed to put up info as long as it is written in your own words and not copied and pasted, which isn't the case on the KK site. It is illegal to make money from the info posted, it is not illegal however to post info freely.

[Gast]

just to note it is illegal to post too much pnp information on a website, you might want to reconsider this especially since the KK is one of the only and most known VTMR RP Groups, (being advertised by PlanetVampire) who like me, are part of the WhiteWolf - Dark Pack

Actually it is perfectly fine to post WOD info on the site. By buying the corebook you are allowed to put up info as long as it is written in your own words and not copied and pasted, which isn't the case on the KK site. It is illegal to make money from the info posted, it is not illegal however to post info freely.

http://www.white-wolf.com/fansites/fs_faq.php
point 14 clearly states your not allowed to give out rules no matter if you repackaged them in diffrent spelling or not.
so Info, YES, Rules NO, Isadors Discipline pages are Rules
Also they added that recently (when i applied it wasnt there), in response I removed rules from my own pages too, and the Charsheet Forms.

it really depends also on how you write it
example original post, merits list = Rules part if you explain them, if you just list them without a cost its fine
but if you add all info about them, its not.

The Point is anything that makes someone able to cobble up the rules to play a VtM or WoD or VtR Game
without owning the book is not allowed

Example:
OK:
Obfuscate: Hiding by manipulating others Minds
Level 1: Touch of Shadow
Level 2: Mask of Tranquility
Level 3: Cloak of Night
Level 4: The Familiar Stranger
Level 5: Cloak of Gathering

NOT OK:
Obfuscate: Hiding by manipulating others Minds
Level 1: Touch of Shadow
Bloodcost: none
Roll: Wits + Lacrency + Obfuscate
Effect: Conceal Small Item from Sight

I mean IF you keep it, I doubt anyone will come down on you, White Wolf arent quite as protective as for example Games Workshop
All im saying is you guys are known and advertised, its easy to find this site, and you should keep to the Guidelines Whitewolf has put up.

[Kikopuz]

Ouch, this hurts..

I think Moepy made a strong point here..
Anyone friendly with someone from White Wolf? :p

If not: DAMN

[Doe]

who gives a *BLEEP* about the legalities? Just post links to the Wiki pages if its so important.

[Kikopuz]

who gives a *BLEEP* about the legalities? Just post links to the Wiki pages if its so important.

Yeah but the whole idea of putting these pages on our site is to explain the information that is given on these Wiki pages.. That WoDWiki is just basic..

BTW Hydro said that they don't even use OWoD anymore, if so, then I'm with Doe.. *bleep* it

[Trogers2]

"you still must adhere to copyright and trademark regulations, agreements, and laws"

Copyright laws vary and they must be followed, however "Terms and condions" may or maynot be "Laws" in most they are just something you must agree too. i.e. installing a program you are often asked to "agree" with the terms and condions, in most cases they are not law, UNLESS they break the copyright laws which vary here are a few phrases taken from the UK laws:

"In many cases, the creator will also have the right to be identified as the author and to object to distortions of his work"

"your idea for a book would not itself be protected, but the actual content of a book you write would be"

Meaning the book itself can not be copied from word-for-word but can however be be writen in your own words.

"8.Acts that are allowed
Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are:

•Private and research study purposes.
•Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
•Criticism and news reporting.
•Incidental inclusion.
•Copies and lending by librarians.
•Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
•Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as “time shifting”.
•Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
•Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.
(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from PRS for Music.)"

By UK laws we are NOT breaking copyright thus our content can not be taken down. The information on the site is not based on the book

"You cannot use more than 1500 words. You can use no more than 3 art pieces taken from any single book. You may not quote more than 10,000 words from any White Wolf Product"

For start The info was not based from any book, and if it was (which is actually some parts of the pages) it is less than 1k words anyway. Which raises the question, why would they check? That rule sound spointless to me but hey back on topic.

"You cannot have character generation rules listed on your site or complete power listings (even if they are your own modifications). You can, however, list any changes to the rules."

I am not even sure if we do have those things on our site, Isador may have put them there without me noticing. Regarding character sheets:
They are all over the website, going back to UK laws:

"your idea for a book would not itself be protected, but the actual content of a book you write would be"

The sheets shadow/Mopy/doan etc... Use are not "copied" Ontop of that copied sheets are all over the internet, and I don't see
white wolf doing anything which raises the question: do they even care?

"1. What is Dark Pack?

It's a general guideline with do's and don'ts for fansites or fans"

Well for starters we are not a fan site we are a RPG group, and the site is aimed at newbies, some of us do not follow WOD i.e. me (who is mainly resopnable for the site) so that doesn't make me a fan of WOD.

Bottom Line: White wolf can't do anything I've read through copyright laws and have found nothing agaist what we have up. This is listed in their terms and condions when you install game but I did not agree to that (sister installed game) so does these rules apply to me? Will they even check, do they even care? WOD content is allover the internet. Which raises another importent note, how long have we had the info up? Has it ever been taken down?

[isador]

Wether or not we'll get complaints from WW on copyright is based on 3 things

1 our renown
If no one knows us, not enough people will see the pages for white wolf to care. If we start getting a couple hundred hits per month, THEN i believe WW will show interrest

2 law
Doesn't matter what country we are from, it's about the country our provider is in, and i got no idea where yola is based. If they want to get at us, they dont go to us they complain to our provider, who can pull us down wether we like it or not.

3 OWOD
I'm pretty sure about this one, in that i doubt WW cares about OWOD anymore. i believe it's safe to say they dont.

[Trogers2]

Yola is US, I'm pretty sure. Based on site tracking we get something between 1k to 10k views a month, Most of which are actually looking for WOD content (searching for it) and find our site in responce. A good 300 are probably clicking on links from PV or other areas and a few others are probably just checking us out.

[Kikopuz]

tom didnt know you were a legal advisor :p
Anyway, I don't know about Iss' pages, but almost all Hydro's pages are copied from other sites and/or WW books..

[Gast]

3 OWOD
I'm pretty sure about this one, in that i doubt WW cares about OWOD anymore. i believe it's safe to say they dont.

your wrong.

16. Can I post old World of Darkness books for download on my site?

No. We still offer many of our books for sale on Drive Thru RPG, so if you offer our intellectual properties for free download or for sale, you are infringing on our rights.

Look you guys, as i said I doubt they come down on you Im just telling you its not right,and they dont want it.
At the very least you should prominently STATE where this is coming from and refrain from posting rules, and keep it to regular information.
I work in Graphics and have worked in Games development and such stuff, Its hard work, and unique work, wich is why I have a certain Sense
about this.
I myself wouldnt ever use another persons/companies content, (Remember the Jans Map discussion), and wouldnt ever allow someone else to use
mine without a very good reason.

And if you think they cant do anything to you? Well keep beliving that In my time in the Industry I witnessed people who were breaking
the rules, and some of them were in debt for the rest of their lives (Games Workshop got the FBI to come down on a copycat in the US)

[Kikopuz]

But eh, the information on our site is anything but regular (Isador's and Hydrogen's pages). So we are actually doing wrong already.. aye?

[Hydrogen]

cant we just write "copyright White Wolf Publishing" at the bottom of the page or something

[Trogers2]

cant we just write "copyright White Wolf Publishing" at the bottom of the page or something

It doesn't work like that, it's like stealing a car and saying "this car was stolen and belongs to someone else"

[Gast]

cant we just write "copyright White Wolf Publishing" at the bottom of the page or something

Copyright White - Wolf Publishing - www.white-wolf.com is the LEAST you HAVE to use

best would be:

2008 CCP hf. All rights reserved. Reproduction without the written permission of the publisher is expressly forbidden,
except for the purposes of reviews, and for blank character sheets, which may be reproduced for personal use only.
White Wolf and Vampire the Masquerade are registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved.
World of Darkness and Vampire the Masquerade are trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved.
Characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by CCP hf.

[Trogers2]

You cannot use more than 1500 words. You can use no more than 3 art pieces taken from any single book. You may not quote more than 10,000 words from any White Wolf Product.

We've had those pages up for years and they haven't been taken down So I don't see any huge problem. Also the content mainly is "written in our own words" it isn't copied directly thus not making us "copy-cats"

However Hydrogens pages are so Moepy has a good point. As these pages are new we may start bumping into trouble.

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